Watashi wa bara no sadame ni umareta... ([info]jetamors) wrote,
@ 2007-08-01 12:40:00
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Current mood: morose
Current music:Escaflowne
Entry tags:meta

Blaargh, haven't hardly written anything in a month or two. I completely lost my funny around June-ish, and while I think it's back, I'm a little tentative about finishing up any of my humor stuff. I'm in a perfect mood for writing angst, but I'm so sick of writing it. Maybe I should try for something fluffy instead--only I really don't have any good story ideas. Prompt me?

In a somewhat more depressing turn, there's been a rather ugly race wank going around in HP fandom; the initial post laying out the issue is here, with more links here and even more links here. What I really hate about this kind of thing (I mean, apart from the stuff like people refusing to admit they accidentally made a mistake, and people attacking the messenger so they won't have to take responsibility, and people equating having sex with me with having sex with goats, wtf?, etc.), what I really hate is how hard it makes it to trust the people on my friends list.

I mean, I was lucky this time. None of the d_d mods and none of the people showing their backsides in the apology post are on my flist. But I was in HP fandom for two years, and I've always had an open friending policy. They weren't on my flist--but they easily could have been.

And I want to trust you guys. You all seem like cool people, and I'd like to think that if something like this came up you'd be able to deal with it like respectful and rational human beings. But I can almost guarantee that the people being dismissive and disrespectful and outright offensive in this wank had nothing in their LJs or the way they presented themselves that would tip anyone off. There is literally no way for me to tell whether any of you are that kind of person.

It just poisons the entire well. For me, fandom is about having fun, first and foremost. But I actively dread the day when something similar happens in a fandom I'm active in. Because then it'll be on my front stoop, and I may have to make some very painful decisions about people I thought I knew. Pretty much the exact opposite of fun :/ It's hard for me to think of leaving fandom forever-- but if I do, it'll probably be because of something like this.

I wish I could say I knew what kind of response I'll get to this post. But I really don't.


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[info]ticklethepear
2007-08-01 05:46 pm UTC (link)
All I can say is: Wow. (But I'm glad I'm on your f-list!)

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[info]jetamors
2007-08-01 06:02 pm UTC (link)
Hee, thanks! I'm glad I'm on your flist too :)

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[info]sugartits
2007-08-01 05:54 pm UTC (link)
You all seem like cool people, and I'd like to think that if something like this came up you'd be able to deal with it like respectful and rational human beings. But I can almost guarantee that the people being dismissive and disrespectful and outright offensive in this wank had nothing in their LJs or the way they presented themselves that would tip anyone off. There is literally no way for me to tell whether any of you are that kind of person.

That's the problem, isn't it? That kind of deep-seated, silent racism doesn't show itself easily.

I wish I could reassure you, but I don't know. There's no card people can flash or anything like that. You just have to wait and see, I guess; these kinds of prejudices reveal themselves with time.

On the topic of the actual wank itself: I was amazed when I saw the initial post from the DD mods. Apparently calling people on their racist bullshit is slander now. 9_9

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[info]jetamors
2007-08-01 06:11 pm UTC (link)
That's the problem, isn't it? That kind of deep-seated, silent racism doesn't show itself easily.

I guess what bothers me so much isn't that it's there as that some people are willing to do just about anything to avoid confronting it. [info]bethbethbeth has a post with several ETAs where she sort of started from a less-than-optimal position, but with thinking about it and listening to other people, she, y'know, revised her opinion and mindset. And that is SO RARE in racial discussions that I just wanted to cry.

Apparently calling people on their racist bullshit is slander now. 9_9

Yeah, I'm really hoping they give [info]zvi_likes_tv a personal apology for that.

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[info]swatkat24
2007-08-01 06:08 pm UTC (link)
I can't begin to say how angry this wank makes me. I tried arguing with some people on the second D_D post. Then I gave up, and just agreed with the poster who called the idiot I was arguing with... an idiot.

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[info]jetamors
2007-08-01 06:19 pm UTC (link)
I saw you! Thank you! :)

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[info]avi_via_vai
2007-08-01 06:15 pm UTC (link)
I know what you're saying- we all converse with one another through each others journals, which at times can get personal, and look at each others fanwork, which also can be personal, so we feel as though that we may 'know' each other very well as a result of all this when really that's probably not so true.

I have someone on my f-list that I met through the internet 6 years ago, and even though our interests have changed completely since then, we still manage to be good friends. Do I feel that I know her fairly well? Sure, 6 years of nearly constant interaction will lead to that, but I don't think I know her as well as people I know IRL for that long. As easy as it is too tell the world about ourselves through our journals, it's all too easy not to tell everything either, which is the biggest problem.

But I was in HP fandom for two years, and I've always had an open friending policy. They weren't on my flist--but they easily could have been.

This is probably one of the truest and most telling things; in the end there are many we could have easily associated with, but didn't for whatever reason only to find later that so many important things can change.

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[info]jetamors
2007-08-01 06:25 pm UTC (link)
I know what you're saying- we all converse with one another through each others journals, which at times can get personal, and look at each others fanwork, which also can be personal, so we feel as though that we may 'know' each other very well as a result of all this when really that's probably not so true.

That's true, though I don't think it only applies to fandom; IRL, it tends to take the form of being broadsided with 'oh, you're a good <whatever>, not a <slur>' or something similar :/

This is probably one of the truest and most telling things; in the end there are many we could have easily associated with, but didn't for whatever reason only to find later that so many important things can change.

*nods* Yeah, though I suspect in this case it wasn't so much a change as bringing out something that was previously hidden.

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[info]author_by_night
2007-08-01 09:39 pm UTC (link)
It's hard, because as you and others have said, even IRL you never know. I've heard some of the most ignorant things come out of the mouths of people I otherwise thought of as respectful and generally nice.

If it's any reassurance... I'm not one of those people.I don't know every flister's religion, sexual preference, ethnicity, country of origin, or even gender - nor do I care. And if I were to ever accidentally say something offensive I didn't know was offensive (because let's face it, we've all had embarassing moments like that) I would apologize upon being corrected immediately, because I can't stand ignorance.

(Although that said, the term the person used... well, I'd never heard it, but any long term word for "marriage" ought to be looked up in the dictionary before use, because if it's complicated it's probably biased in some way.)

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[info]jetamors
2007-08-01 10:47 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. The way certain people have behaved just really taints everyone who isn't a jerk. It's not fair that you even have to make a statement like this, and it isn't fair that even with that, there's no way for me to know 100% for sure: not because of anything you've done as a person, but because of how other people have conducted themselves. I want to say that of course you'd never do something like that. And don't get me wrong: I really don't think you would. But then I can't help but wonder: if I'd known any of the d_d mods as long as I'd known you... would I have said the same thing about them last week? The whole thing just makes me feel hateful and paranoid at the same time.

(Although that said, the term the person used... well, I'd never heard it, but any long term word for "marriage" ought to be looked up in the dictionary before use, because if it's complicated it's probably biased in some way.)

Though of course for added fun, apparently most dictionaries don't list it as a pejorative D: Really, I'm not that upset that they chose the prompt in the first place; it isn't (thankfully) a common word, after all. But I think it was horrible that they decided to expand it to be even more offensive, and I think it was horrible for them to jump on [info]zvi_likes_tv for trying to discreetly correct their ignorance.

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[info]a_white_rain
2007-08-01 10:20 pm UTC (link)
Your feelings are... who wouldn't find your feelings rational? I'm just. Having sex with someone not of your race =/= having sex with a goat. wtf.

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[info]jetamors
2007-08-01 11:00 pm UTC (link)
Apparently the standard operating procedure is to first deny that there could be any kind of problem with any of this (we're not racists, after all), and then when half of fandom verbally mudstomps you (which, btw, I was extremely happy to see), to post a mediocre apology that doesn't even mention the specific person you slandered in the first post :/ Though like I said, it's not all bad; there was a lot of support right from the beginning, a lot of people became more educated, and a few people even *gasp* modified their opinions somewhat, which easily makes this the least depressing racewank I've ever seen.

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[info]a_white_rain
2007-08-01 11:10 pm UTC (link)
I just wish you didn't feel like you'd have to settle in that sense. It's not fair to anyone that people won't admit when they're hurting someone on any level.

If I'm hurting someone and I don't realize it, I want to be called on it.

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*here from metafandom*
[info]spoggly
2007-08-02 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Very interesting. I think this might get back to a lot of the secondary trouble people are having with the issue, aside from the racist behavior, etc.; these are people you're in fandom with, and they're outing themselves as racist. As someone in a similar situation to yours as far as HP goes, I'm having a similar reaction, re: friends list, etc. (And I'm now freaking out, because some of the same people are in my other fandoms - but...tl;dr). Basically - really interesting, thoughtful post. :)

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Re: *here from metafandom*
[info]jetamors
2007-08-02 09:42 pm UTC (link)
(And I'm now freaking out, because some of the same people are in my other fandoms - but...tl;dr)

Yeah, that's one of the things I'm worried about too. Fandom is so fluid that I'm a bit scared of running into some of these folks a few fandoms and name changes down the road and not recognizing them.

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